JenovaAlchemist
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Alchemy Cards (I know I'm a newbie, but hear me outThe other night Naardas and I were throwing ideas about and we came up with the new alchemy type, with some interesting conditions (such as discarding spells rather than using Mana).
These are cards such as,
Backfire Transmutation
Cost 2 Spell
You can pay this cards mana cost by discarding 2 spells from your
hand or field.
Negate the activation of, and destroy a spell
Draw 1 card.
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Aarikku
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Well, Alchemy is already represented by the Element theme and - to a lesser extent - MetaDragons.
The main problem with this is that Spells can't be activated during your opponent's turn, so I'll assume it's supposed to be a Trap. In that case, it's a potentially Mana-free [Cancel Spell] (and if it's not free, it's still likely cheaper) that also lets you draw a card.
I don't like making cards that make other cards obsolete, so perhaps negating Spells should be best left alone.
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Naardaas
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Leave the new guy alone a sec, Aarikku. I know you're just trying to help, but I don't know if you're going about it the right way. And besides, once JenovaAlchemist likes an idea, he's not likely to relinquish it just because someboy he doesn't know says so.
If you think the card is unbalanced, then I'm sure we can tweak it a bit. Maybe we could raise the cost to 3, and give it an activation requirement. I'm sure JenovaAlchemist has plans for an Arena Spell (or Terrain Spell as I call them); and then only it allows Backfire to work.
Something like:
(Cost 3) Backfire Transmutation
Trap
Activate only while [???] is in play. You can pay this card's Mana cost by Scrapping 3 Spells from your hand or Field, except [???]. Negate the efect of a Spell and Destroy it, then draw 1 card.
And as for the Alchemy theme, I don't want to spoil it, so let's just say it's a little more involved in the Alchemic process.
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Aarikku
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Once again I must remind you that criticism is HELPFUL.
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Naardaas
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I know it is, but he just started here. He might not be 100% up to speed on what you're looking for in a card.
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Aarikku
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Hence the criticism.
On another note, I can't help but feel that your other alternate terms for some cards (Terrain vs. Arena) isn't helpful for newbies. We really should just stick to one name.
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Naardaas
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Fair enough.
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Pyrah
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How about making this card a situational card rather than having it be able to play at any point during the game, sort of what Naardaas has going, but a bit more strict with the effect. I don't know how you would make that effect viable, but I think it should be done for a specific point time in Play.
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Naardaas
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This discussion is a good idea, but keep in mind that it's JenovaAlchemist's design, and while I'm fairly certain he'll be fine with these changes, I don't think we should overhaul the card altogether without his opinion. Seems immoral.
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Pyrah
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I understand.
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JenovaAlchemist
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Well, I DID tell you I was new, and therefor would be a little fuzzy. And while I agree that your critisism is helpful, I must stress that a new type such as Alchemy will just alow for more versatility when playing. However, Now that I look at it, it does seem a little broken. But I have begun work on an Arena card for the Alchemy Type, called Alchemic Laboratory. I'm just finalizing the effect, but it will first and formost be the card that must be in play in order to play Transmutation cards. I will add that to their effects. Plus, I agree that we should bump the cost up to 3.
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Naardaas
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Seems fair buddy. Feel free to post these card whenever, and I'm willing to help you with the art.
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Pyrah
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Diddo(sp?) for me too with art if you feel like your getting frustrated with it or just need help with it.
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Naardaas
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Ah... teamwork on the forum. It warms my heart... or it would, if I had one.
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Naardaas
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Okay, for an update, Alchemic Laboratory is know known as [Barrier of the Master Alchemist], and the creatures of the theme include Alchemist, Homunculi, and some Orichalcum-based cards ('cause Alchemy's not complete without it). Care to show 'em what I mean pal?
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JenovaAlchemist
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Sure thing!
There is a couple of new cards in the set, such as:
Demon Homunculus
Colourless
Level 4
Humanoid Male/Alchemy
Strike- ????
Guard- ????
This card gains 1000 Strike/Guard points for every creature your opponent controls. When this card is destroyed, you take a point of damage for each creature they control.
Kyuukyoku* Alchemist *Kyuukyoku means "Ultimate" in
Colourless Japanese.
Level 2
Humanoid Male/Alchemy
Strike- 2500
Guard- 3000
Scrap 2 Spells from your hand to select 1 Spell from your Deck or Grave.
Runes of the Master Alchemist
Cost 3
Scrap 3 Spells from your Hand or Field, and return 3 spells from the grave to your hand.
Worry not! More to come!
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Aarikku
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Kyuukyoku's STK/GRD are too high. The maximum STK of a Level Two monster is 2600, and anything around 2400-2600 shouldn't have an effect that strong. 3000 GRD is also quite high; perhaps the highest of any easily-played Level Two monster - let alone a Colourless one! Effectwise, being able to search for any Spell is just too good.
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Naardaas
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Again, he hasn't posted them as we discussed them.
First of all, Kyuukyoku has 2000 GRD, not 3000. Seconds, I'm pretty sure most of these cards say "Those spells cannot be used [this turn]." Third, I'm pretty sure Demon Homunculus was not either LV4 or Colourless; what we came up with was LV3 and Dark.
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Naardaas
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So, Jenova, are you ready to post a few more Alchemists?
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JenovaAlchemist
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My apologies for the errors, my notes were unclear. Thanks be to Naardaas (why so many a's?) for his corrections. In any case I haven't been on lately, and am eager to pick up the slack, starting with...
(Level One) Botanical Homunculus (Earth)
Category: Alchemy - Homunculus
Effect: When this card is destroyed, select 1 Homunculus from your Hand or Deck. Play [Botanical Homunculi] equal to its level on the opponent's field, then play that card.
STK/ 1000
GRD/ 1000
(Level Two) Forbidden Transmutation
Spell
Effect: This card cannot be played unless [Barrier of the Master Alchemist] is on the field. Scrap 2 monsters with Alchemist in their names, and summon 1 [Demon Homunculus] from your Deck to the Field.
(Level Two) Buster Transmutation
Trap
Effect:You may pay the Mana cost of this card by discarding 2 Traps from your hand. Negate all Monster effects that designate Alchemy monsters for one turn. This effect breaks immunities.
Sorry to end it here, but it appears I've run out of time. Rest assured, I will be back! Mwa- Ha- Ha!!!
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Naardaas
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Nice cards. Nothing broken here. In fact, I think Forbidden Transmutation could be less costly, since it's conditional and plays a balanced monster. Can't wait to see more.
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JenovaAlchemist
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As allways, I am happy to make any changes I need to in order to make this Architype work, unless it involves rebuilding it from the ground up. You were here first. Now I think it's time to get into the nitty gritty.
First off, by personal request
(Level Six) Orichalcam Dragon (Colourless)
Category: Alchemy - Dragon
Effect: This card gains 300 STK/GRD for every creature removed from play.
STK/ ????
GRD/ ????
(Level Seven) Elite Alchemist - Transmutation Swordsman (Colourless)
Category: Alchemy
STK/ 7000
GRD/ 4500
I must away, but will return.
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Naardaas
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I'm pretty sure that's the wrong effect for Orichalcum Dragon and... WHOA! That Swordsman looks cool! Now this I gotta see.
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Aarikku
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Just throwing this out here in the hopes that you guys will listen to it:
Level Ones: Basic monsters. Generally less than 2000 ATK.
Level Twos: Decent monsters. Generally less than 2700 ATK.
Level Threes: Powerful monsters; boss cards. Generally less than 3500 ATK.
Level Fours: Also powerful cards. Some are nigh-legendary. Generally less than 4500 ATK.
Level Fives: Almost always C/T only. Very powerful and legendary-ish.
Level Six: Deity-class. Any non-Deities are C/Ts.
Level Seven: NO. Can't you come up with a number between one and six that shows how strong your swordsman is?
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Naardaas
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The why did you make Naardaas LV7? It should be LV6, which isn't a big difference.
And unless you've made Titanium Dragon a Deity or a C/T monster, LV6 statement isn't exactly true.
Finally, you're out of the loop on these cards. Elite Swordsman has a card to summon it with. But I won't say anymore.
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Aarikku
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I made the game. Don't keep me out of the loop.
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Naardaas
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Hey, I was as surprised as you were he made the Swordsman that strong. He told me about the summoning effect, but not that it'd be that big.
And we will keep you in the loop on these cards by posting them, but you ignored the last 2 sets of cards posted by not commenting.
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Aarikku
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A bunch of question marks and an empty effect space isn't much to post about.
Post as much as you've designed or I delete the thread. This isn't a 'Mystery card' forum, it's Create-a-card.
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Naardaas
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All the cards in the Alchemy series ARE complete right now. Those are the ones I was referring to. The ?'s in here are for stats, like Overmind's STK.
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Aarikku
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So the Swordsman is just a 7000-ATK vanilla monster?
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Naardaas
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I guess. That card was designed soloely by JenovaAlchemist; I wasn't a part of its creation, at his request.
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Aarikku
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That sounds ridiculously lame.
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Naardaas
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What do you want me to do about it? I wasn't part of its creation. So either it does have an effect and we don't know about it, or it doesn't and we've seen that. Unless JenovaAlchemist writes an effect her for it, that's as far as we'll know I guess.
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Aarikku
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Your friend doesn't seem to be on here all that often.
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Naardaas
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He has other stuff to do, and his parents restrict his phone/internet time. Oh, and we'd get fried trying to do this at school. FRIED.
When he gets back from camping later I'll tell him you want an effect for Swordsman, but I don't control him.
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Aarikku
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Don't bother. If he's interested in continuing these at some point, just mention the Level system.
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Naardaas
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I told him about the Level system when he started making these. I reminded him about it twice. It was his idea to post the penultimate cards for a series first. I thought he would post the other Alchemists first. But again, I don't control my friends.
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Aarikku
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Wait - he wants to write a series too?
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Naardaas
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The archetype, Kung Fu Robot Killer. He doesn't want to write a series. He just wants to have say in mine.
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JenovaAlchemist
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My apologies, I've been...elsewhere
This would be easier if this game wasn't so damn confusing...
Anyway, there's a new mechanic in the architype, called the "Equivelent Exchange" mechanic, or just EE.
Basically, it's like Synchro- Summoning, but cooler because it's in Shmod. It's trigered by a new card called;
(Level 2) Equivelent Exchanger (Trap)
(what is Continuous called in Shmod?)
Scrap 2 Alchemy Monsters. Tap 1 mana, and vanish monsters in your grave. Summon an EE monster equal to their combined level. This effect may be used only once per turn.
Monsters specific to this mechanic will have EE on the card.
The current ones are:
Both the Elite Alchemists,
Elite Alchemist- Transmutation Overlord (pending)
yet to be named Homunculus
(Level One) Botanical Homunculus (Earth)
Category: Alchemy - Homunculus
Effect: When this card is destroyed, select 1 Homunculus from your Hand of deck. Play [Botanical Homunculi] equal to its level on the opponent's field, then play that card.
STK/ 1000
GRD/ 1000
(Level Seven)Elite Alchemist- Transmutation Gardna(Colourless)
Catagory: Alchemy
Effect: As long as this card remains face up on the field, no other Alchemy monsters may be selected as attack targets.
STK/ 3000
GRD/ 8500
(Level Two) Schrodinger: The Alchemic Physicist (Colourless)
I have to go, so I don't have time to post the rest, but I'll keep you posted...
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Naardaas
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This requires a little better explanation.
(Level 2) Equivelent Exchanger (Trap)
(EE) - Continuous
Once per turn, Tap 1 mana to select 1 EE monster in your C/T Stack. Tribute 1 Alchemy monster, Scrap 1 Alchemy Monster, and vanish monsters in your grave equal to its level. Then, play that monster.
The example given would look like this.
(Level Seven) Elite Alchemist - Transmutation Gardna (Colourless)
Catagory: (EE) - Alchemy
Effect: This card cannot be played except by an (EE) card. As long as this card remains face up on the field, no other Alchemy monsters may be selected as attack targets.
STK/ 3000
GRD/ 8500
And it's not true Synchro because it's more costly, more conditional, and cannot be done right away.
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Aarikku
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We're not using any new mechanic that's best described as "basically, it's like X mechanic from Yugioh."
(NEW mechanic. Don't start giving me crap about Combination.)
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Naardaas
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We never said "best described as". He said it was a lot like, and I said not so much. If you look at it, it really isn't.
And why would I bust your chops about (C)?
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Aarikku
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I dunno. Just covering all the bases.
Anyway, the point remains that using monsters as a cost whose Levels add up to the resulting monster is too much like Synchro Summoning.
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Naardaas
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...It says a number of cards equal to its level, not total levels. In other words, 7 monsters for a Level Seven. It disragards their levels altogether.
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Aarikku
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| Quote: | | Summon an EE monster equal to their combined level. |
I disagree.
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Naardaas
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I think that's just poor phrasing on Nick's part. What I wrote is what we decided on.
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Aarikku
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In that case, I see absolutely no reason to make a new mechanic out of this.
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Naardaas
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Why? Is there something better you could recommend?
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Aarikku
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I dunno, but it's not that wild and crazy of an effect to warrant a new mechanic.
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Naardaas
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The old way was too Synchro for you, and the new one you think is dull. This is why I can get frustrated; I don't know what is is you want, and you won't tell me.
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Aarikku
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It's obvious what I want - this idea of yours to not be in Shmod.
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Naardaas
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All I wanted to do was create a game mechanic.
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Aarikku
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I know. But that's a bad way to make a game mechanic. You don't start with the idea of a game mechanic, you start with what you want to happen. If you can do it without a new mechanic, you keep it like that. If not, and it's worthwhile, it becomes a mechanic.
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Naardaas
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Well then what could we do with these Alchemy cards? Because in that case it's possible to make it an effect that isn't a new mechanic.
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jadecavy
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I believe Nick here has rekindled a long living war between the two of you - I know Greg is stubborn and you don't seem eager to step down and let Nick and Greg work on fake cards that most likely will never be in the game. Do you think the Yugioh creators get all worked up when they see people making fake cards with fake mechanics that aren't official rules but are interesting to think about? I highly doubt it. They most likely look at it and think - "I like the way these kids think."
What I'm trying to say is, what may be an interesting concept to them may be rubbish to you, however it could develop into something interesting. It's not like they're cheating or really adding it into the game. So let them have a little fun and think a bit. 
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Aarikku
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That's just the thing. In Yugioh, people can post whatever they want and the cards will never get into the game. But here, a pretty large majority of posted CaC's go into Shmod. Which is why I have to be stricter about what happens.
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jadecavy
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Ok. I guess that makes sense.
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Naardaas
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Gee, thanks Scott.
Anyway, I know that this stuff can wok; I just need to find a way to make it work.
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